Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 9 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1081



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Way cool astronaut toy :-)
Re: The WOTC purchase
Re: Hasbro buying WOTC
Re: ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Weight of Metal
Re: WoTC
Re: The Council (re: Rules Lawyers)
Re: Merc Equipment/Recruitment 
Re: Roger Sanger? 
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1080
Re: Vacuum tube computers
Re: Roger Sanger?
Re: Hasbro buying WOTC
RE: Photographing starship miniatures
Re: Technology Demographics
Re: Weight of Metal
Re: GURPS Design: Missile
Re: WoTC 
Re: Roger Sanger? 
Re: IISS Ship Files 
Re: Acceptable Battle Losses
Re: Hasbro buying WOTC
Re: Roger Sanger? 
Re: Grand Tour
Re: Acceptable Battle Losses

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:44:12 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Way cool astronaut toy :-)

In a message dated 9/9/99 9:06:35 PM !!!First Boot!!!, 
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:

<< See:
 
 http://space.com/spaceimagined/psa_ball.html
 
 A different kind of Happy Fun Ball...
  >>

I saw it on ZDTV. Looks like something out of the DGP 101 Robots book...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:51:12 -0500
From: "John Majer" <jsmage@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: The WOTC purchase

> > Just heard this on the radio while getting lunch.  They're supposedly
> > buying
> >  them for 325 million. See the following link: >>
> >
> > Great; so not only will we NEVER see Avalon Hill games reprinted, now we
will
> > NEVER see SPI games reprinted either... Hasbro sits on aquired material
that
> > they don't use in a manner that makes Mr. Sanger look like a saint...
:-(
>
> I think this is likely to put the whole industry in the Sh*t. If D&D gets
> binned, there'll be practically no recruitment of new gamers, and if
> here (NZ) is anything to go by, a lot of stores will close or stop
> carrying rpgs. D&D is just too much of the rpg turnover.

For one, the industry is pretty dead already, with a few important
exceptions.  Think about how many companies have gone down in the last two
years.  But I think we'll still get new players, but they're all going to be
goths *grin 'n shrug*.  I'm telling you, the only way out of this morass
we're getting into is LARPing, something the Man can't get at.  Well, that's
a lie, but it'd be nice to think.  Speaking of LARPs, does anyone know
anything about the Traveller LARP that went on at GenCon in Aug went?
- -J.S.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 20:02:09 -0500
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org>
Subject: Re: Hasbro buying WOTC

At 02:45 PM 9/9/99 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 9/9/99 4:40:30 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Clark@bessemer.com 
>writes:
>
><< Just heard this on the radio while getting lunch.  They're supposedly 
>buying
> them for 325 million. See the following link: >>
>
>Great; so not only will we NEVER see Avalon Hill games reprinted, now we
will 
>NEVER see SPI games reprinted either... Hasbro sits on aquired material that 
>they don't use in a manner that makes Mr. Sanger look like a saint... :-(
>
>

Like I pointed out to a guy I know, it's a plot. They are going to buy out
the entire RPG and CCG industries and kill them to rise the sell of board
games. :(


Richard Wilson

rtwilson@rollanet.org
rtwilson2@yahoo.com
ICQ# 33152095

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 99 19:17:05 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On 09/09/99 at 08:46 AM,  "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net> said:

>So, like, does this mean that the FASA stuff won't be on the TravCD?
>:-p

That's probably what it means, unless some one has gotten permission from FASA
to put there stuff on the TravCD. 

AFAIK, FASA still controls those copyrights, that is they weren't sold to
Microsoft.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 99 19:32:10 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Weight of Metal

On 09/09/99 at 10:33 AM,  "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> said:

>>> According to FFS1, densities for the above are 10, 15 and 15 tonnes per
>>> cubic metre, respectively.
>>
>>Which means they are 10, 15, and 15 kg per cm^3.
>                                     ^^

>Oops. You mean 10, 15, and 15 g per cm^3, right?

>(I can see the jackals decending on the wounded prey now ...)

The *friendly* TML wouldn't do that to one of our on....would it? <g>

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 99 20:01:28 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: WoTC

On 09/09/99 at 01:54 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:

>Scary, actually. 

Remember what Hasbro did to Avalon Hill, the wargames, The General?

>A large, highly public American toy corporation now owns Magic the
>Gathering and D&D. 

>Expect these games to vanish once the fundies start in on Hasbro.
>They're a lot more vulnerable to loud calls for boycotts than either
>WOTC or TSR ever were.

>The company that makes GI Joe and Monopoly now sells satanic demon
>raising instruction kits that cause children to go insane, wear black
>trenchcoats and kill innocent classmates en masse.

>At least that's how the fundie spin will be.

Bruce, the Assembly of God down the road already holds periodic toy
burnings during their revivals staring GI Joe and Barbie.  They
don't *need* to the D&D/MtG connection, they already think the
toymakers are agents of the Devil.

>My prediction?

>Hasbro will strip out Pokemon, and toss the rest quietly on the
>dungheap. Pokemon will be a fading fad, gone in 6 months anyway, but
>I'll bet Hasbro more than gets their $325 million out of it. They
>were willing to bet that.

Who knows.  Hasbro bought AH mainly for the titles and ideas they
could mine for their computer game division.  I suspect they have
the same idea with WOTC/TSR. 

The problem, really, is that Hasbro has no motive to pursue low
volume, small profit, ventures like either MtG cards or TSR RPGs.
Although, they may be high volume/profit in our *little* niche, it's
small potatos in the mainstream toy and game markets.

>It's telling that the founders of WOTC were willing to sell now...in
>a take the money and run sort of way.

Shoot, would *you* sneeze at 325 million bucks?

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 99 20:05:23 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: The Council (re: Rules Lawyers)

On 09/09/99 at 05:51 PM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> said:

>At 11:32 AM 9/9/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>So we are all canon lawyers; the scribes of the ancient world,
>>quibbling over jots and tittles.

>	I like tittles ... 

No, no! Not "ties", "tles"

...oops!

Never mind! <g>

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:18:03 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Merc Equipment/Recruitment 

> >IMTU, depends on who your polity is.  The most common faction of the
> Shattered Imperium as far as my players is concerned (the Federation of
> Daibei) does, the Principality of Caledon does,
> 
> Oh, they do, do they? Well, *I* never saw any of it....<g>
> 
> Cdr Hawkes
> +++
> Unless I lost it all in that Poker game on Victory, of course.....

Where you think Grey got his 20K severance pay?  <grin>

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:19:57 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Roger Sanger? 

> >Dave, where do you hail from?
> 
> 	Only the shadow knows ... currently I'm laired in Northern Virginia

There goes the neighborhood...  <g, d, & *R*!!!>

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:23:44 -0700
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1080

>> Has anybody out there done this before? It seems the new autofocus
>> cameras don't do a very good job at closeups.

>I'm not a photographer, but I recall a jewler friend mentioning that
>you need special closeup lenses to take the sort of picture you want.

It's very hard to design a general-purpose lens that will focus from 2 inches
in front of the lens all the way to infinity. What you want is a "macro" lens,
specialized for closeup photography;
you can buy one for most SLR ("interchangeable lens") type cameras.
Even used such a lens might be fairly expensive, so what you might want
to do is rent one from a good camera shop. (I can suggest one for the
SF Bay area, if anyone wants to email me.)

Bruce Macintosh
bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 99 20:16:08 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum tube computers

On 09/09/99 at 10:53 PM,  j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete) said:

>On Thu, 09 Sep 1999 00:06:50 -0400, "Keven R. Pittsinger"
><jamstar@accesstoledo.com> wrote:

>>> My first job in the USAF was flightline maintenance on the AN/ASG-15
>>> Defensive Fire Control Sytem on B-52Gs. It used analog ballistic
>>> computers that weighed 60-80 pounds each. Sometimes the mechanical
>>> relays would get stuck. One of me most common ways of unsticking them
>>> was to kick the front of the box several times... HARD! I wish that
>>> worked on exchange servers. 8-) 

Tap test!  Tap test!  Beat @$@@ out of the equipment and see if
it'll, %@#!! well, start working!  <g>

Hey, UK'ers...what was that "general purpose 4 letter word" the BBS
invented for use on British TV?  I want to tell my boss, ex-Navy
CPO, all about it...he's always looking to expand his vocabulary.
<g>

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 99 20:21:42 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Roger Sanger?

On 09/09/99 at 07:45 PM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> said:

>At 06:12 PM 9/9/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>Just wondering, I work with a Mrs. Golden, I even thought she had
>son named
>>Dave.
>>Ever been to Conroe, Texas?

>	Not that I know of ...

Hey, Dave!

A better question is, has you *mother* ever been in Conroe, Texas? <g>

But seriously, I knew a Dave Golden in high school in Milton, Florida, but having seen your picture on your website I'm sure that wasn't you either...unless you lost 100 pounds and changed hair color.  Nah, it still couldn't be you! <g>

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:28:34 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hasbro buying WOTC

In a message dated 9/10/99 1:09:49 AM !!!First Boot!!!, rtwilson@rollanet.org 
writes:

<< Like I pointed out to a guy I know, it's a plot. They are going to buy out
 the entire RPG and CCG industries and kill them to rise the sell of board
 games. :( >>

Well, I wouldn't shed a tear about CCG's disappearing, but I'd miss the 
RPG's... :-) Seriously, I too wonder about D+D III. I bet that if it's in 
final production, it'll go. I bet though otherwise it'll be put on hold while 
marketing (who I bet hasn't one gamer in the whole staff...) decides if there 
is enough of a market for it. I bet they say no... :-( I personally detest 
D+D but I pray for its' re-release since it DOES have name recognition and it 
would hopefully bring fresh blood in to the hobby. Said fresh blood could 
hopefully be induced to try Traveller...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:33:29 -0400
From: Glenn Myers <glenn.myers@ansys.com>
Subject: RE: Photographing starship miniatures

Leonard responded to my email...

>> Like I said, the Ent came out OK - aside from having his head cut off
>> :-/
>
>And I bet you had him on the ground. 
>


Yep, and the shots of the starships from further away actually came out
better. The focus to the starship was 95% the focus to the background.
The focusing on the background may be the problem, together with the
vertical line issue swordworlder mentioned. I think this weekend I'll
take the hex background outside (to eliminate any lighting issues) and
shoot a roll at carefully documented ranges and zooms.


Thanks to all on the TML for their recommendations. With any luck I'll
be posting my url soon!

Glenn

______________________________________________________

Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc.                Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive      Phone: (724) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317      Fax:   (724) 514-3118
______________________________________________________
 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:04:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Technology Demographics

In mail you write:

>> I'm running 1280x1024 on my 16" monitor. And I got it for $200. :-)
>
> Yikes!  I have always found relative screen sizes to be very much a matter
> of personal taste, and for my taste, that is way too many pixels per inch.
> :)  Similarly, my new 21" (19.8" viewable) will easily run 1600 x 1200, but
> the icons and text just become too small for my comfort.  By using a more
> conservative 1280 x 1024, I can actually read the code I'm writing.  OTH, I
> have encounted users who insisted on running 640 x 480 on 17" monitors,
> because that is what they are used to.  To them, my recomendation of 1024 x
> 768 was 'too small'.  I'd been getting by for years with inexpensive
> monitors, but I got a major job upgrade this spring, so I splurged on the
> Trinitron.  I'm happy with the money I spent, I work at home now quite a
> bit, so I spend many 'quality' hours a day looking at this CRT.

I needed it to avoid trashing the graphics I was viewing. And I don't
know about Win 95/98, but under OS/2 I can select "large fonts". That
gets rid of just about all of the "too small" problems.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:09:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Weight of Metal

In mail you write:

>>> According to FFS1, densities for the above are 10, 15 and 15 tonnes per
>>> cubic metre, respectively.
>>
>>Which means they are 10, 15, and 15 kg per cm^3.
>                                      ^^
>
> Oops. You mean 10, 15, and 15 g per cm^3, right?

Argh! I didn't think it was *that* late when I posted. 

> (I can see the jackals decending on the wounded prey now ...)

Good. The gun crews can use the practice. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:11:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GURPS Design: Missile

In mail you write:

>>Power: Power cell stores 2,269,152kWS (63.53lbs, .64cf, Cr6,354),
>>good for two hours of operation.
>
> Non rechargeable not allowed in GT.

Which is *silly*. There are lots of ordinance uses for "use once"
cells. Though, frankly, there won't be a lot of cost/size/weight
difference between "use once" and "rechargeable". The main *real world*
difference I can think of is in making the "plates" heavier duty so
they can handle multiple charge/discharge cycles.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:49:57 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: WoTC 

> >A large, highly public American toy corporation now owns Magic the
> >Gathering and D&D. 
> 
> >Expect these games to vanish once the fundies start in on Hasbro.
> >They're a lot more vulnerable to loud calls for boycotts than either
> >WOTC or TSR ever were.
> 
> >The company that makes GI Joe and Monopoly now sells satanic demon
> >raising instruction kits that cause children to go insane, wear black
> >trenchcoats and kill innocent classmates en masse.
> 
> >At least that's how the fundie spin will be.
> 
> Bruce, the Assembly of God down the road already holds periodic toy
> burnings during their revivals staring GI Joe and Barbie.  They
> don't *need* to the D&D/MtG connection, they already think the
> toymakers are agents of the Devil.

Hell, Eris, see if they wanna buy any swastikas or something.  It kinda goes 
with that mindset.
 
> The problem, really, is that Hasbro has no motive to pursue low
> volume, small profit, ventures like either MtG cards or TSR RPGs.
> Although, they may be high volume/profit in our *little* niche, it's
> small potatos in the mainstream toy and game markets.

Well, I'll admit, I'll be glad to see the end of Magic; The Addiction.  When 
I was looting^H^H^H^H^H^Hshopping at my FLGS the other day, a couple kids 
came in asking about 'demonic cards' and such.  The owner didn't exactly 
freek, but he put it in no uncertain terms that it's a *GAME* dammit, not a 
religion.

Kinda makes you wonder bout the kids coming up today...

> >It's telling that the founders of WOTC were willing to sell now...in
> >a take the money and run sort of way.
> 
> Shoot, would *you* sneeze at 325 million bucks?

Eh.  I'd settle for half a percent of that.

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:55:47 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Roger Sanger? 

> > Well, I'm not gonna get into a p***ing contest here, but I have a lot of
> > the old FASA stuff, and I consider 
> > them to be among the *BEST* CT supplements around.  But then, YMMV.
> 
> High Passage magazine was pretty cool, too.

HP was *AWESOME*.  I *loved* it.
 
> A whole lot of the FASA stuff was written by the Keith brothers, and is
> thus sacred.

Even the non-Keith stuff was good.  Look at 'Rescue on Galatea' some
time.  IMNSFBHO, it's one of the *BEST* non-GDW adventure booklets
printed.  The whole concept was great, and I'm still trying to figger out how
to swipe^H^H^H^H^Hmine this puppy for adventure nuggets for my PBEM.  Haven't
found a geologically active world like Galatea in Reavers' Deep yet that fits
the profile.  But I'm still looking...

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:57:25 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: IISS Ship Files 

> The LBBs _will_ return. In strength. In bold determination. In TOTAL
> VICTORY!!!

Amen!  Say it, Brother Andy!!!

> ...and probably in flared trousers, too, man. [thhhhhhpp.]

Just hope they lose all those tacky gold chains though...

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:11:15 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Acceptable Battle Losses

>From: Matt Clonfero <Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Acceptable Battle Losses (was: Re: Safety of low berths)
...
>INVINCIBLE, INDEFATIGABLE and QUEEN MARY were all battlecruisers, not
>dreadnought battleships.

  They were built using the same principles as their battleship stablemates
and cost roughly the same; I've also seen them referred to as dreadnoughts.

  FWIW, I class any KM tactical victory at Jutland as attritional at best
(i.e., somewhat dubious overall).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:11:45 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Hasbro buying WOTC

>From: rboleyn@paradise.net.nz
>Subject: Re: Hasbro buying WOTC
...
>I think this is likely to put the whole industry in the Sh*t. If D&D gets 
>binned, there'll be practically no recruitment of new gamers, and if 
>here (NZ) is anything to go by, a lot of stores will close or stop 
>carrying rpgs. D&D is just too much of the rpg turnover.

  One can worry too much - commerce abhors a vacuum.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:12:56 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Roger Sanger? 

At 09:19 PM 9/9/99 -0400, you wrote:
>> >Dave, where do you hail from?
>> 
>> 	Only the shadow knows ... currently I'm laired in Northern
Virginia
>
>There goes the neighborhood...  <g, d, & *R*!!!>

	Don't run, you'll only die tired ...
- -- ------------------------------------------------------------ --
   Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj 

   Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they 
   did it by killing all those who opposed them.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:27:52 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Grand Tour

On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:24:26 -0400, "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
wrote:

>TNS: Regina/Spinward Marches                   1118-035
>
>Tukera Lines has announced that a new Victory Class MegaMerchant outfitted
>as a Jump Liner will be making a Grand Tour from Mora (3124 SM/Mora) to
>Capital in honor of the Emperor Strephon's Golden Jubilee.  Construction of
>the Van Horne was recently completed by the GSbAG facilities at Mora
>Highport. The 200,000 dton MegaMerchant is expected to visit Regina on its
>way to Corridor Sector.  Tukera Lines expects many high ranking Imperial
>Nobles to avail themselves of comforts of this vessel's 600 High Passage
>Staterooms for the trip.  The Van Horne is the first ship to be scheduled
>for this route which Tukera had discontinued during the Fifth Frontier War.
>********************************************************************
>A travel poster for the Van Horne's voyage and specs for the ship (in GURP's
>stats, thanks to Thomas L Bont's GURPS Traveller Ship's program at:
>http://209.39.36.25/gurps/
>
>will soon be posted at my site:
>http://members.home.net/carlino/
>
>
>
>Terry C
>
>All that is Gold does not glitter
>Not all who travel are lost
>

I hope Tukera Lines doesn't claim this ship to be *unsinkable*. ;-)
There's a story there somewheres methinks.





================================================================================
- - Pete                                                      j_pete@bellsouth.net

"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the
 lash."                                              -Winston Churchill

Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833

- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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!O M-- V- PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++
G e+ h--- r+++ y+++
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

NOG #74   Nova 700

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:30:59 -0400
From: "Thomas Schoene" <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Acceptable Battle Losses

- ----------
> From: Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Acceptable Battle Losses
> Date: Thursday, 09 September, 1999 10:11 PM
> 
> >From: Matt Clonfero <Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk>
> >Subject: Re: Acceptable Battle Losses (was: Re: Safety of low berths)
> ...
> >INVINCIBLE, INDEFATIGABLE and QUEEN MARY were all battlecruisers, not
> >dreadnought battleships.
> 
>   They were built using the same principles as their battleship
stablemates
> and cost roughly the same; I've also seen them referred to as
dreadnoughts.

In the sense that they were all-big-gun turbine-driven ships, they were
dreadnoughts.  However, the fleets of the day had already differentiated
between the two main types of dreadnoughts (battleships and
battlecruisers), so it's unfair to call the battleships.

ObTrav: the comparable distinction between ship types seems to be between
heavy cruisers (J-4, heavy armor) and fleet intruders/frontier cruisers
(J-5, less armor)  There doesn't seem to be any interest in a J-5 ship the
size of a Tigress.  Interestingly, the one canonical Fleet intruder I know
of is also a good deal slower (fewer gs) than her cruiser counterparts.

Tom Schoene

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1081
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